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 Over the past three decades, Wes Anderson has cultivated a highly eclectic and faithful stable of actors. When the director calls, a motley crew comes running—spanning ages, career phases, and box office favorabilities. It’s like summer camp, but for really successful adults.

One recent addition to the menagerie is Academy Award winner Benicio del Toro, who first entered the fray in 2021’s The French Dispatch before returning to star in last month’s The Phoenician Scheme as Zsa-zsa Korda—“international businessman, maverick in the fields of armaments and aviation, among the richest men in Europe.” After surviving his sixth airplane crash, the tycoon (written with del Toro in mind and inspired by Anderson’s own father-in-law) attempts to prime the sole heir to his vast fortune: one of his 10 offspring, who happens to be a nun. It’s Succession meets The Graduate at James Bond velocity.

Del Toro’s capers in Anderson’s dulcet universe are a balmy parenthetical to an otherwise dark and high-octane filmography. The 58-year-old Puerto Rican actor has wielded his signature scowl and gravelly baritone to play all manner of drug lords, cops, robbers, addicts, and mercenaries over a nearly 40-year career. In the process, he’s crafted a villain archetype all his own—merciless and textured, with an undeniable gravitas. (He’ll lend the same heft to another Anderson’s new project—Paul Thomas, this time—playing the leader of a band of ex-revolutionaries on a rescue mission in September’s One Battle After Another.)

Among The Phoenician Scheme’s many cameos is Scarlett Johansson, now an Anderson fixture herself. While also promoting Jurassic World Rebirth and her directorial debut, Eleanor the Great—about a 94-year-old (June Squibb) befriending a 19-year-old student after a tragic loss—the actor called up her co-star before this year’s Cannes Film Festival for a candid post-mortem.

Here, del Toro and Johansson hash out their feelings around the modern-day movie-making machine—from on-set angst and press-tour hiccups to confronting themselves on the big screen.

Benicio del Toro: Scarlett, thanks for doing this. You’re so busy—Jurassic World Rebirth, The Phoenician Scheme, your film Eleanor the Great…

Johansson: It sounds like a lot, but existential angst is still my main brain occupier. You can steal that term if you want—“brain occupier.”

Del Toro: Maybe it’s a self-defense mechanism that kicks in when you’re busy.

Johansson: The busier I get, the more I ask myself, Is this what I want to be doing? What happens next? It’s hard to stay present. When we’re acting, we’re in the moment. But once a project is out and everyone starts analyzing it, I find it harder to stay grounded.

Del Toro: I haven’t done press like this in a while—interviews are tough for me. I don’t analyze my work as much as journalists do. They find meanings in it that I never thought of—I just learn my lines. Sometimes they ask a question and after I answer, there’s this long pause. It makes me feel like I have to keep talking until I say something brilliant, and then I sound stupid.

“During interviews, silence feels like failure, so you fill it. If we did that while acting, it’d be overacting. But I overact in interviews every time. I can’t show restraint.” —Benicio del Toro

Johansson: I had an interview recently where I couldn’t stop talking. Mid-sentence, I thought, What am I even saying? This is going to be printed verbatim.

Del Toro: I know exactly what you mean. You think, Why can’t I just shut up?

Johansson: Then I read interviews with someone like Tom Ford—so concise, so classy. But now that I know you feel the same, I feel better.

Del Toro: It’s a tricky thing. Good work sells itself eventually, but you still have to promote it. During interviews, silence feels like failure, so you fill it. If we did that while acting, it’d be overacting. But I overact in interviews every time. I can’t show restraint.

Johansson: I bet that’s why we keep rambling—it’s a form of people-pleasing. We don’t want anyone to feel uncomfortable. Did you see [The Phoenician Scheme] yet?

Del Toro: Yes, I did.

Johansson: So you can watch your own films?

Del Toro: I have a hard time, but I did sit through it. When I watch a movie I’m in and can get pulled in despite my own faults, I take that as a sign it’s a good movie. I stop obsessing over how I look or what I could’ve done differently. The Phoenician Scheme pulled me in—that’s Wes’s magic. Even peeking through my fingers, I was able to relax and take it in. I can’t wait to watch it again.

Johansson: Did you watch the animatic, too? I found it really helpful. Wes’s scripts can be so dense, so even those primitive storyboards help give some context when you’re shooting. They’re not overly specific—they don’t box you into a performance—but they give a feel for the world he’s building. Seeing the final film after that process… It’s incredible what comes out of those sketches.

Del Toro: When you joined, we were already deep into it. That whole shoot was so isolated—it felt like we were still in a Covid bubble, even though we weren’t. Every night, I’d go back to my room and just stare at the ceiling, feeling like I was still underwater. I didn’t go out to dinners like I did on The French Dispatch, where my role was smaller. I had to prep each night for what was coming up—scenes that weren’t even fully locked yet. Wes and I had done a lot of work ahead of time, too, as he was finishing the script—right up until about a week before shooting. He’s always tweaking. When we got started, I told Wes that I couldn’t make it to dinner every night, and he understood.

Johansson: When we did Asteroid City, new actors were showing up every few days. There was so much excitement, like, “Willem Dafoe’s here!” Everyone was waiting to see what each person would bring to it. By the time I arrived, Wes was just relieved it was all happening. It felt like an accomplishment just to finish each day. Did you feel that sense of accomplishment?

Del Toro: Well first, you were fantastic in Asteroid City, and you’re just as great in The Phoenician Scheme. With The Phoenician Scheme, I only felt a sense of accomplishment about two weeks from wrapping. It was hard. On The French Dispatch, I had more room to breathe and enjoy the crew. But this one required total focus. I had to stay in the moment, scene by scene. We were deep in it, very serious. And then you showed up and brought this amazing energy. Everyone lit up. Wes was laughing more, I was laughing more—it was like this burst of levity we didn’t even know we needed. You would go right up to Wes, in your way, and just ask, “Hey, why do I have to do this?”—he couldn’t help but laugh.

Johansson: I could tell you guys were deep in something. Even in my first scene, I felt it.

Del Toro: You arrived right when we needed a jolt of fun. That’s the thing about cameos—when they’re done right, they don’t just add to the film, they change the energy on set. It was a good reminder: Hey, this should be fun. I hope people connect with it.

Johansson: I think people will like the movie, but who knows what people go see these days. Everyone’s habits have changed. You just hope they consider this a “big screen” movie—it’s so cinematic. But lots of people love watching at home with their giant TVs and pizza. Which I love too, to be honest. Do you still go to the movies?

“I’m not a big ‘shut it down’ person. I like trying things.” —Scarlett Johansson

Del Toro: Yes, I like going to the movies.

Johansson: Why do you go?

Del Toro: The sound system. The image quality. It’s just better than at home. And I love the shared experience. When you’re not sure something is funny, but someone else laughs, and that gives you permission to laugh too. It creates a kind of temporary community. The last movie I saw in theaters was a Beatles documentary, Beatles ’64. I was grooving in my seat to the music, but no one else was.

Johansson: I saw Barbie in Paris—not the right place to see it. I loved it—so weird, so subversive, so Greta [Gerwig] and Noah [Baumbach]. But no one else in the audience was reacting. Maybe it was the subtitles, or just the cultural difference. Some movies really need to be seen in your home country, you know?

Del Toro: Yeah, different countries react differently. In Cannes, you’ll see how that plays out with your film.

Johansson: I’m kind of nervous. I hope it plays. It’s such a specific film.

Del Toro: They’ll get it—just maybe in a different way. I’ve also been on a Cannes jury. You get to just watch movies and talk about them. I was [president of the] the Un Certain Regard section [in 2018], which is where your film is. That category is incredible. Honestly, 98 percent of the films that get picked for Cannes are good—even if they’re not to your taste. You feel like a jockey with a horse in a race—really rooting for your film to make an impression.

Johansson: Yeah, especially with an indie film. There’s so much content out there. You really have to be willing to push it up the mountain, because no one else will.

Del Toro: Honestly, The Phoenician Scheme is an indie. The way Wes works feels very indie, too—he storyboards so meticulously. I basically knew every shot he was going to use, because he sticks so closely to those boards. It’s either on there or it’s not happening. No point trying to convince him to do a close-up—he knows exactly what he wants.

Johansson: Sometimes you’re watching a Wes movie and you wish he’d cut in for a close-up or pull out—but he never does. He locks in on his vision.

Del Toro: How were you as a director?

Johansson: Honestly, I loved it. My favorite part was the collaboration—working with really talented people and helping them bring the best version of their vision to life. It’s fun. You’re surrounded by artists who surprise you and elevate things.

Del Toro: Did you ever shut down ideas?

Johansson: I’m not a big “shut it down” person. I like trying things. Most actors like to try things, right?

Del Toro: I agree. But sometimes, it’s time that forces your hand. You hit a point where you have to say, “This is how we’re doing it,” because you’re running out of time.

Johansson: You start the day with all these soaring ideas. Then it gets close to lunch, and suddenly all that experimental stuff is the first to go. Like, “We’re losing light in four hours—what do we have to get?”

Del Toro: That’s what makes it exciting.

Order your copy of the Art + Food issue, with Benicio del Toro on the cover, here. 

Grooming by Lucy Halperin
Location: Grand-Hôtel du Cap-Ferrat, a Four Seasons Hotel

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